SIPA STORIES: Fair representation as an issue for everyone: an interview with Women in Leadership

Aranzazú Jorquiera Johnson (MPA-DP ’23) is President, Pranati Kohli (MPA ’23) is Vice President, and Estefanía Tena Alonso (MPA-DP ’23) is Director of Communications. To contact Women in Leadership, email sipa.wil2021@gmail.com. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Tell us about yourselves, your backgrounds, and what brought you to SIPA. What motivated you to run for Women in Leadership?

Aranzazú: Before coming to SIPA, I've been working mostly as a diversity, equity, and inclusion consultant for a firm in Peru. We do a lot of cutting-edge work in Latin America, and broadly work in gender issues and equality, working to close gender gaps in the workforce. In the last couple years, I've been focusing more specifically on sexual harassment prevention in the workforce.

Coming to SIPA for me was expanding my knowledge, my practice, beyond Latin America and trying to be more conscious and mindful of my impact. I'm really looking forward to developing the skills and tools to be able to monitor, evaluate, and understand the impact that we have — beyond simply the really positive interactions that we have with people that are thankful, for changes in mindset and a different way of understanding how the workforce can be harnessed for social good. I'm also really looking forward to working a bit more in corporate social responsibility and harnessing the power of corporations for social good and tackling inequality.

Women in Leadership was one of those clubs that I saw from way before I applied to SIPA. When I heard they were having elections, it definitely sounded like something I was interested in. I've been President of my Model UN club in college, so I had a lot of experience leading boards and organizing events that were honestly pretty big, and we had large budgets. So it's interesting to work with SIPA and WIL, and trying to manage the budget and the organization at a higher level with students from across the world that are really incredible and impressive. But at the same time, we have a smaller budget and fewer members, so it's interesting to bridge those gaps and understand how to lead an organization in a graduate program. I'm very excited for the year to come. We have two more board members that are also international students, and they're really excited with the board that we have for this year.

Pranati: I'm originally from India, but I also did my undergrad in the U.S. at Emory, which is obviously a very Southern school. The exposure to diversity and what that actually meant came around that time for me. I studied a mix of things: math, political science, and economics. Honestly, just because I couldn't decide. I was happy doing all three things and decided to continue it.

After that, I got involved with the United Nations in Bangkok. I was working on data analytics, and it was a really interesting project — only for six months, which I wish was longer, but hopefully I get to go back to Bangkok at some point in my life. After that, I've worked with the government, specifically with the national investment and promotion agency. They look at all foreign direct investment coming into the country, facilitating foreign as well as domestic investors in different sectors. The sector that I was responsible for was clean energy. I had no prior background in clean energy or energy in general, but for some reason they placed me in that sector, so I said, ‘Okay, why not?’ As soon as I got involved with the first project, I realized that this was something that I was super interested in, specifically with electric vehicles and ensuring transition to a cleaner economy for India moving forward. But I also realized at some point that my knowledge was lacking, because I was a fresher and kind of jumped into the deep end of the pool. So I decided to come back to school and figure out what the energy system actually looks like, where the transition was required, where cleaner fuels were required, or which stage in the system.

That's what motivated me to come to SIPA and study from global leaders in the energy space, but also work with an increasingly diverse cohort. SIPA is one of those schools that is an international affairs program, but also an international school. That's something I didn't see in some other programs. That was really the strongest pull for me. Because I think, ultimately, when you graduate from a school that has students from across the world, your network is just that much wider, and you're learning so much more about issues, challenges, and opportunities that exist around the world. It just enriches you so much more as a person.

These two ladies motivated me to join Women in Leadership and run for the position. The more we spoke and tried to develop our platform, mandate, and what we were hoping to get out of the coming year, the more I realized that, ultimately, it is a fair representation organization. As a woman of color and an international student, on a daily basis, you see instances around and situations that you're placed in, and you wish it was otherwise. So hoping to change that for women of color or international students moving forward.

Estefanía: I am from Mexico, and I studied economics in Mexico. While I was still studying, I worked at a public bank for works and services for the government.

Since then, I realized that — I don't know if it's because it's Latin American machismo, it's really strong in their field. But I've been working in different sectors since then, and I've witnessed that women are still not heard, not in leadership positions and everything. But, well, this was my journey. I first worked at the national bank for public works and services. After graduation, I worked at an NGO in South Africa and agribusiness NGO that was supposed to support women. I felt really frustrated because I felt like none of our work worked at all, but I've learned some valuable things.

After coming back to Mexico, I worked at the federal government, the social development federal ministry. I performed public expenditure, public policy, impact evaluation methodologies regarding women-oriented regional projects. We did a lot of projects and partnerships with UNDP, UN Women, a lot of other federal ministries in Mexico, and I kept realizing that just 15 percent of women had director positions. Even working in the government, I was too frustrated.

After that, I went to the private sector and worked at a female-founded and -led social enterprise. I was the first employee besides the three co-founders, so we were just four women working there. It was really cool because we established alliances between the private sector and NGOs, and we promoted different sustainable development projects in marginalized communities. But something I realized there, too, was that nobody trusted us because we were four women and there was no man. A lot of super big private companies just rejected us and didn't want to work with us because we were four women. So I feel like ever since I started my career, I've been witnessing all these problems.

That just kept me frustrated, and I knew I wanted to do something about women in leadership, anything that has to do with women. So when I saw this with Aranzazú at SIPA Fest, we were like, ‘Okay, we need to do this. This is our thing, let’s do it.’ When they told me they were running, I was like, ‘Okay, I’ll do it.’ And here we are, I’m really excited.

I came to SIPA because I feel like, in general, sustainable development in Mexico — it doesn't even exist, you know. It's a really important thing, and regarding public policy, we're lacking a lot of things. I need to go back to Mexico after graduation and try to do something about it.

As a group, what are some of your visions or goals for the year? Are there particular things you want to accomplish? And why?

Aranzazú: Something really important to me, because of the background I've had and how much I've worked in this sphere, is understanding and sharing the knowledge that gender gaps in society are not just a woman's problem, but a broader societal issue that needs to be tackled by bringing into the conversation and creating agents of change way beyond women.

It's not just about fixing women, it's about understanding how these gender gaps are a product of systemic biases and sustaining systemic barriers that prevent women from really reaching those largest positions of power. There’s a study in 2015 about an index of large companies, and there were more men named John that were CEOs than women CEOs. It's really impactful. It really shows it's not that women haven't been part of the workforce for years, and it's not about women being able to negotiate or lead. It's a lot to do with the biases that are ingrained in the way we think about the workforce, who works, who is a leader, and what that looks like. 

Something important to me is integrating the whole SIPA community and beyond into workshops, trainings, and panels that go beyond this idea of trying to target just women. If we work with just 50 percent of the population, it's unlikely that we will be able to create societal change. We really need to look beyond just women when we do these events. We're hoping to have a lot of dynamic, active events, training, and workshops that invite the broader community. Something that I would like to do is call on our women members to invite men to join our conversations and our events. We all bring one person from a different gender, even just thinking beyond men, I think we will have a much higher impact. 

We're also looking to partner with a lot of organizations on campus. We'll focus on developing skills for the workforce specifically and tackling these biases, but there are many sectors we can also work with. We’re hopefully working with Spectrum, the Latin American Student Association, the Center for Global Energy Policy, and thinking about how we can partner with organizations of different sectors so we can reach the wider community.

Estefanía: We're also looking to work with other women-led organizations in other schools throughout Columbia — not just SIPA, but also in business, law, or engineering. Everywhere we can add more people to join this, we're looking forward to working with them.

Pranati: One thing we picked up from a colleague at SIPA is bringing together and learning from the SIPA community that already exists — from second-years, J-termers, first-years as well. Hearing from them what their ideas are, what they would like to see from us as a board moving forward. We understand that — by constitution, by mandate — we’re allowed to do certain types of events. But we're very much a fair representation organization, and that could mean very different things to different people. We really want to hear from a lot of people within and outside SIPA, what they expect from us moving forward. 

Somebody from the Executive MPA program mentioned, for the interaction with the Harlem community, and there's obviously such a huge opportunity because there are so many women of color within the Harlem community that don't necessarily have the opportunities or access that we as women at SIPA do. But presenting them the kind of opportunities that could be available as women in STEM or in other fields, sharing the message that they don't have to limit themselves to what has been previously established.

What does leadership mean to each of you? What makes an effective leader? Are there particular qualities or behaviors?

Estefanía: I would just want to say one word. If I should describe it in one word, the best word for me would be inspiration.

Aranzazú: My model of leadership is based a lot on active listening, empathy, and really working collaboratively. Really listening to the community. For me, a more innovative or newer model of leadership that works more effectively is one that doesn’t have that hierarchical feeling where it’s top-down, and someone just shouts instructions to the team. I think that's a model that's a little outdated, and specifically with the pandemic, we've realized that we really need to understand where everyone's coming from, what their previous experience is, their background, and what their needs are in order to be an effective leader. For me, leadership is a little bit less hierarchical and more collaborative, and definitely exercising a lot of empathy.

Pranati: Listening is a huge one. Aranzazú hit the nail on the head when she said that as a leader, your primary responsibility is to listen to what your people are telling you. If you're turning a blind eye, or if you're not listening to the people at the right time, you're going to mess up — there is no two ways about it. 

The kind of society, the kind of culture that I grew up in, good leaders are usually the ones that allow for people to make mistakes. This idea of perfection should not exist, I think it should be known to people that you're allowed to screw up, you're allowed to make your own choices, make your own mistakes, have your own learnings. But as long as you know there is somebody who's there to back you up, to support you, to let you know that it's going to be okay. There is another way, there is another path, there is another opportunity out there for you. It's not the end of the world. I think those kinds of people that are able to inspire that kind of confidence within the larger community usually make the best leaders.

Are there any role models or leaders that you really look up to, of any gender? How come?

Aranzazú: I'm thinking about a large corporate leader that a lot of people could be familiar with. He’s a male, but someone I’ve been kind of following is Paul Polman, the previous CEO of Unilever. The way that he understands that the impact a corporation has goes far beyond their bottom line and really needs to think about the impact on all stakeholders is really important. 

Verna Myers from Netflix is another corporate leader that’s powerful, understanding that inclusion and diversity are not just about having people present in the organization, but really inviting them to take an active role and ensuring they’re comfortable enough to actually participate.

Estefanía: It's a hard one, but I'm a huge soccer fan, so maybe that would be Jürgen Klopp, the Liverpool Football Club coach. I admire him because he's a great leader, because he has a super diverse team with players from everywhere in the world. He has always tried to make everyone work as a team and not exclude anybody. Even if you're the best player, you still need your other players to win the game. When somebody on his team makes a mistake, he always takes responsibility. He defends his players because he knows he’s the leader. He always tries to make them feel covered, like they’re protected. We all work as a team, and everybody here is the same regardless of their culture or nationality.

Pranati: One of the things that has been drilled into my head all through my childhood was that leaders are usually the people who fall seven times but are able to get up eight. The ability to constantly bounce back is one of the most important things.

A leader that has showcased that and has been doing really well, especially recently, is Whitney Wolfe, the founder of Bumble. Her story is one that really represents perseverance and the ability to bounce back up, even though you fall really, really hard. Before she founded Bumble, she was co-founder of Tinder, and she lost that person she was in a relationship with and it was a really bad ending for her. But just the ability that she was able to get up from that, dust herself off, and start something so incredible, learning from her own experiences where she put women in charge of their own narrative and love life. I think that was super powerful. She's definitely someone that has a lot of admirable qualities about her as a leader. 

I think another woman, and this is more so a cultural thing. Indra Nooyi was the ex-CEO of PepsiCo. One of the stories about her that stuck with me was, she had just become CEO and was obviously super happy about it. Everybody at home was celebrating, but her mom was visiting from India and she walked in through the door. She told her mother that she just became CEO, and her mother said, ‘Okay, that's great, but dinner has been on the table for 30 minutes, and you're late, and somebody needs to make the rotis.’ So she's like, ‘are you joking, I just became the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, but this is what you say to me.’ The minute you walk through that door, you are a daughter, wife,  mother, as well as a CEO. As an Indian woman, that's something I've constantly seen at home as well. You could be professional, but you also have personal responsibilities to live up to. Just from that perspective, she's someone that I really admire and who's been able to do the balancing act really well.

Is there any advice you would give to other aspiring leaders? 

Aranzazú: Something I learned a couple years ago that's always important, even as a leader, is this idea of calling in versus calling out — the way that we give feedback, that we take ideas, is really important. As leaders, we really have to take care of our team in how we're saying in a very empathic way to not only listen to their ideas, but motivate them to speak up and really feel confident enough to just give suggestions like there's no wrong answer, there's nothing that will make you feel wrong, or you're a bad person for making a suggestion, or that you're dumb or anything along those lines. It's really this idea of not calling someone out because they said something that could be framed in a different way, or something that they said could be perceived as wrong, but you're calling them in, building that empathy, and helping them feel comfortable in their own position. Creating that safe space within an organization and within teams is really important as a leader.

Pranati: I completely agree, 100%. I think, don't buy into cancel culture at all. I'm not a believer of cancel culture, I don't think it should be a thing. This is obviously not to say that some of the people that have been canceled don't deserve to be canceled, but as individuals, we're often able to make the difference. But because we're trying to be woke, we're trying to be aware of what's going on around us, we’re so harsh on the people around us, even though we know their heart is in the right place. I think definitely avoid that at all costs, give people the benefit of the doubt. As you see ignorance that exists, please be the ones to educate them, to bring them into a conversation and share your perspective, hear their perspective. If you feel like their or your perspective can be changed, understand the importance of that discussion, more than the importance of sidelining said person. 

Another thing I would say in general, not necessarily to women or anybody, is just make mistakes. Make as many mistakes as possible, because that is a guaranteed way of learning, which is, I think, a very important thing in life.

Estefanía: I just want to add: don’t let anybody tell you that you can’t do anything, that you’re not capable of doing something. Just trust yourself and be confident, and it’s okay to make mistakes.

SIPA’s looking for a new dean to start this fall. If you were meeting with the search committee or the new dean themselves, what would you say or ask for? Is there anything you want to change at SIPA or that you want more of?

Aranzazú: I do think it is important to highlight the importance of someone that is diverse and that represents the diversity within the student body.

Pranati: I wholeheartedly agree, it’s important to get somebody that can represent and pick on different perspectives within the community. Dean Janow did a fairly good job, one of the reasons I applied to SIPA was the entrepreneurship program and opportunities available moving forward. I think she had some really great ideas that she was able to execute and implement in a pretty neat fashion.

I will say that, I was made to realize that all of my professors, except one, were white men. And that, honestly, at the beginning of the semester, I didn’t think about it for a minute. But when it actually is kind of thrown in your face, you really do take a step back and think about it, how in a leading international affairs and public policy program, you’re studying from all white men. So representation within the teaching staff would be good, if not required.

Is there any other takeaway message that you want to leave everyone with at SIPA, Columbia, or beyond?

Pranati: We are a fair representation organization that is inclusive of all genders and interests, whether professional or otherwise.

Aranzazú: This is something that I think everyone at SIPA already embodies and does, but this idea that we can all be agents of change and take an active role in what Women in Leadership does.

It’s not a women’s issue, it’s an everyone’s issue. It goes beyond women not reaching leadership positions, and it also impacts men and their ability to have a relationship with their families and time to be a person beyond the workforce. Until we realize that it’s an everyone problem, we won’t really have that motivation to take action. And not just take action on International Women’s Day on March 8th, but every single day in every comment we make and conversation we have, it’s something that needs to be tackled.

Estefanía: I would just add that make sure everyone’s heard, not only women, but anyone who has something to add. Make sure everyone’s heard, every voice counts.